June 4, 2007 Le Figaro published an interview of President
Putin, full of common sense and measure. The demonization of Russia
has now reached global proportions. But will Europe, herself made
into a vassal, accept that the American anti-missile system to
be installed in Poland and in the Czech Republic may function
in automatic concert with the nuclear arsenal of the United States?
Will Europe, even humiliated, accept that, for the first time,
US-nuclear power is installed on its soil? Will Europe, even domesticated,
accept that the world's political balance will be turned around
with the purpose of the definitive military subjugation of Copernicus'
Continent to a foreign empire, while we are not even being threatened
by anybody? Will an 'enslaved' Europe now require of Vladimir
Putin to help it break its chains? Now that's the only real question.
this actually is about a desperate attempt by the United States
to recover the theo-political world-hegemony which their crusader
spirit appeared to promise them before the international shipwreck
of the democratic messianism they launched in Iraq.
US is very effectively supported in its attempts at re-conquest
of European opinion by the complicity of the French press, starting
with Le Figaro, which took care not to publish the essential message
of Mr. Vladimir Putin to the Old World:
Why do the Americans try to realize their plans with so much tenacity
if they are so obviously without real object?
Putin: Perhaps we are bringing Russia and Europe closer together,
and the Americans try to stop it. If this were the case, it would
be one more [US] mistake.
Do you plan to install a similar system [an anti-missile shield]
in Cuba and Venezuela?
Mr. Putin: Not only it is not our intention, on the contrary,
we even dismantled our bases in Cuba. The Americans, however,
build some of theirs in Europe. After the fall of the Soviet Union,
our policy assumed a very different character. We want neither
confrontation, nor bases under our nose. The current Russian system
relies mainly on political decisions [instead of military options].
censure by Le Figaro is not innocent: it is linked obviously
to the article of the new President of CRIF, Mr. Richard Prasquier,
in Le Monde, May 31, 2007: "Iran, the proliferating nuclear power",
which tries to divide Europeans by emphasising that the imaginary
threat by Iran would relate to Europe.
Old World is thus under an absolute moral obligation to find again
its sovereignty, which will require forming a sufficiently dissuasive
Euro-Russian axis to stop the planetary expansion of a military
empire, whose close cooperation with Israel constitutes for the
moment the central thrust.
- Le savoir et l'action. L'Europe
vassalisée face à l'Iran révolté, ler septembre
the degree of vassalisation under the sword of "Freedom" to which
the Old World is currently resigned will make it difficult to
French diplomacy to assume leadership of a reinvigorating Europe.
How to dissuade Germany from again wearing the leader's helmet
amongst the nations who are extremely satisfied with their attire?
But, fortunately, it is more than 40 years since our country expelled
the troops of the new occupants of Europe from our territory.
(De Gaulle expelled the US troops and bases from France, a feat
that was not repeated by any European state - ISH). If we don't
play -- even if we are alone, the card of refusal of submission,
we would betray not only our history, but the spirit of Europe.
It is a matter of resurrection, or death of a civilization.
March 17, 2007, the Iranian television recorded an interview with
me whose content thus does not present anything secret. Following
recent resumption of a dialogue, suspended for 27 years, between
the United States and Iran, I consider the time proper to publish
this interview, because this debate places from now on the simi-anthropology
[implying ape origin of man] at the heart of rational reflection
on international politics.
Since an American anti-missile shield is being built in Poland
for the purpose of in-flight destruction of Iranian thermonuclear
bombs as ghost-like as that available to the current owners of
artificial apocalypse, it will become increasingly difficult not
to realize that 3 monotheist theologies are built on the model
of mythological dissuasion, illustrated by the thermonuclear weapon.
- Le dissuadeur dissuadé,
Esprit, novembre-décembre 1980
- Critique de la dissuasion,
Esprit, juin 1979
- La crédibilité de
la dissuasion nucléaire, Esprit, novembre
The psychoanalysis of the biblical idol unloads to historical
science, so that the sacred genocide by the Flood and the eternity
of infernal tortures appear finally as documents awaiting their
You have published a twenty-odd works with the largest publishers,
numerous articles in the columns of Le Monde and some 80 essays
in magazines. At the day following the attack of 11 September
2001, you decided to express yourself on the Internet, convinced
that this mode of communication will forge an alliance of a new
type between the basic reflection of the philosopher and the hot
political news. You gave it an intellectual passion, which illustrates,
in your eyes, the opportunities that only the Internet will be
able to disclose to anthropological reflection on the policy of
tomorrow. You argue that, given that the brain of our species
is divided between reality and the dream world, it is a matter
of learning how to interpret, in the anthropological sense, that
fundamental dichotomy of the sacred. You are also cofounder of
Encyclopaedia Universalis, in which you have steered the
philosophy of sciences in a direction now shared by analysts of
the unconsciously theological foundations of traditional physics.
Your critical anthropology throws light on the psychological foundations
of the concept of "theory of nature". Can you explain that
to us in a way accessible to the general public?
de Diéguez: Of course. Everyone understands that
politics is history in action. If you look further into the notion
"politic", you discover that physics is like applied politics
to the behaviour of matter. Fortunately this can be shown clearly
to be sufficiently constant and regular to be foreseeable and
therefore exploitable. But then, a more thorough knowledge of
man appears the key to the science of the cosmos. To learn how
to decipher the current human-primate species, it is necessary
to observe the functioning of its skull by reading the great writers
and philosophers. But Shakespeare, Cervantes or Swift are, actually,
contemplative of our species and its brain and therefore truly
philosophical. In this way, they initiate us to politics and a
true reading of history.
No reflective policy is possible without a thorough knowledge
of history. But you invoke the "political insanity" of America.
M.deD.: Don Quixote is insane, Lady Macbeth sinks in
madness, Gulliver observes the madness and the folly of the Yahoos,
Molière goes into psychoanalysis of the obsessive madness of L'Avare.
It is enough to say that the highest literature and philosophical
anthropology have joined to observe the madness of mankind, but
also the magnitude of spiritual madness, which makes of Zarathoustra
a brother of Jean of the Cross. Unamuno associates the genius
of Don Quichotte's madness with the sacrifice of Christ. The Spanish
soul is a large initiator of the spiritual resources of Madness,
and France is a Don Quixote of freedom to the eyes of the whole
is a question of bringing to the Occident some of Cervantes' or
Shakespeare's thoughts on madness and on Madness. To do so, it
should be demonstrated that we cannot stop the progress of the
history of human dignity. It is for this reason that Iran also
has the right to have the nuclear weapon just like the eight big
insane countries now in possession of that unusable bomb. The
war is not a mutual suicide pact. It is absurd to prohibit gesticulation
about the nuclear weapon to the remaining part of the universe.
All this show sends us back to the madness of the simian-anthropos
worthy of the pen of Kafka, that other brilliant visionary of
Iranians: The Iranian atomic bomb is thus the occasion,
in your eyes, to illustrate the capacity of the philosopher-anthropologist
of today to initiate the general involvement (of mankind) in the
secrets of international politics.
M.deD.: Yes, with the proviso of looking further into
the concept of politics so that the eye of historical science
may metamorphose politics into a formidable scanner of the anthropological
secrets of mankind.
So, Mr. Nicolas Sarkozy, known to fear the Iranian bomb as it
would threaten Israel, is a case of political naivety?
M.deD.: Not at all, that relates to political 'tartuffism'
[calculated sanctimony for profit, from Molière's Tartuffe character],
a highly calculated hypocrisy. Mr. Sarkozy is no 'simple of spirit'.
Under these conditions, how would you define the top priority
of international politics?
M.deD.: To liberate Europe, politically and militarily
turned into a vassal by the US since 1945, that's what appears
to me the essential imperative of today, that of the real France,
i.e. that of Don Quixote. But the Italian people also start to
open one eye and the German people are very close to opening both.
Even the Parliaments of the Länder begin to question the duration
of the American occupation. It is a slope of politics on which
one stops with difficulty. Admittedly, it has been 60 years that
the people of Europe have blindfolded themselves. But there will
be a German de Gaulle, a Spanish de Gaulle, an Italian de Gaulle.
You see that the political spirit is a big folly: it'll go to
the point of teaching true history at the school of madness of
the prophets. Nevertheless, politics are initially a business
of common sense. In face of the warlike expansion of an empire,
there remain only 2 possible logics: that of submission and that
of combat. Even the existence of the yoke of NATO strikes European
civilization by disinheritance.
Iranians: What about, from the viewpoint of the anthropologist
of politics, the alliance between the United States and Israel?
M.deD.: There is an obvious contradiction between the
public law of democracies which recognizes to all people on Earth
the right to dispose for themselves and the precipitated and bellicose
return to Judea of the Jewish Diaspora scattered on all the continents
since the destruction of Jerusalem on 70 AD. This exceptional
occurrence raises an anthropological problem, entirely unknown
to political science and world-historical science, namely that
of how does work the brain of a species divided between realities
and theologised terrestrial worlds. Is it legitimate to drive
off its soil a population, which has been occupying this soil
for several centuries before Moses? Moreover, starting from the
7th century, the original population started to adore a third
God, whose doctrines are bi-phased on as all gods known as unique,
and therefore necessarily incompatible with the "revelation" which
forms the basis of the orthodoxy of its 2 predecessors. Only decades
of suffering will inform us about the outcome of this incredible
experimental illustration of theo-politics, of which I have tried
to postulate the anthropological foundations for more than 30
happens that this problem is from now on narrowly connected to
that of Europe occupied by NATO. Plato explains in The Republic
that a defeated generation generates necessarily 2 generations
of blind men, but that the third generation will no less necessarily
awake. It is thus inevitable that one day Europe will drive out
the American garrisons from its territory. Under these conditions,
how should it be successful to implant a theological brain over
another in the Middle-East - that of Jahve over that of Allah?
Modern historical science and geopolitics still miss the anthropological
science of the relations which descendants of a furry ape maintain
with the imaginary characters who wander in their brains and whom
Isaiah called idols. Do you believe that if the United States
did not present itself as back-up troops of the god of liberty,
whose genes are those of the Gospels to 99%, a giant aircraft
carrier of the US Navy would be anchored in, the middle of the
Mediterranean since 60 years? This anchor place is still called
Italy, but only for the form, since only the Italians born between
1920 and 1930 still have their eyes sufficiently open to be surprised
about this state of affairs. But the Italians born around 1970
will relearn to open them wide again. The future belongs to them.
Iranians: You have terrible formulas on the "European
servitude", like this one: "Our mirror reflects to us our
effigy of tartuffic [sanctimonious] torturers".
M.deD.: How can a torturer appear tartuffic? The psychoanalysis
of the torturer has remained in infancy. It was only one black
hole in great literature, despite Kafka's The Penal Colony. But
with Jonathan Littell's Benevolent Ones, with the Balzacs, Stendhals
and Prousts of tomorrow, if they are born, they will open the
psychoanalysis of the torturer. You see, with a little psychology,
one can open peoples' eyes to the secrets of chancelleries. Definitely,
literary genius is the engine of knowledge of mankind. The genius
of Littell is to paint us a torturer as the banal and universal
character of Mr. Homais, because the real tartuffism is visceral
and unconscious. But this topic would take us too far.
Iranians: How would you define the ideology?
M.deD.: The ideology is the hypocritical bulwark, which
prevents us from going down into the anthropological depths of
the Creator and his satanic dose of good conscience. Take the
account of the Flood. The first exploit of this idol is nothing
other than genocide on the planetary scale. But see how this torturer
puts himself into embarrassment, and that at the school of his
own tartuffism, which does not fail to trap him neatly in return;
because he needs to save from drowning samples of his creation,
as failing that, how would he go on writing his own history? He
believed to be avenged once and for all, and there he is, captive
once more, just as a thermonuclear giant, who has become hostage
to his own devices. Then this awkward-one gives himself a son
in flesh and bone. But how to make him a god armed with a skeleton,
some muscles, a liver and internal organs, like Mars or Poseidon?
How to supplant his rivals while having a digestive tract? What
a fool, this first Sanctimonious hypocrite of torture! Islam took
care not to give birth to Mahomet from the entrails of a woman
fertilized by a divinity, like Leda or Proserpine. By refusing
incarnation of the signs, and thus of symbolism, Islam gained
15 centuries advance over Christianity. Also, since nearly 3 centuries,
the Occident of science and reason endeavours to see Jesus as
a great prophet. That is taught by the Quran.
What do you mean by what you call the theopolitical science? Is
the flag a theopolitical object?
M.deD.: Even the catholic Church teaches that a ciborium
is not a sacred object, because the spiritual does not play hide-and-seek
with atoms of silver or iron. France does not play at who loses
wins with the fabric of a flag, because it is pagan to think that
the spiritual would substantify itself.
That means that candidates for the presidential election should
know that one asks them to symbolize the true France and true
France doesn't incarnate itself, because it is a marching sign,
like prophet Jesus or prophet Mahomet are marching signs. Theopolicy
returns to the knowledge of unconscious "spiritual" of politics
and history; the "spiritual" adjective applies to the signs and
symbols, not to the material things.
Does the Vatican still have a role to play?
M.deD.: Institutionalised theology is dead. The future
of God is "poetic", provided one rediscovers that poetry is a
spiritual demiurge. I treated this subject in my Essay on the
poetic future of God, Plon 1965. I show there that Bossuet, Pascal,
Chateaubriand and Claudel share the same doctrinal theology, but
that they are recognisable to their "true God", that of their
voice, which are 4 different gods.
Iranians: Is the weight of Judaism excessive in the West?
M.deD.: Ex-president Carter published a political text,
which caused great noise and in which he denounces the policy
of apartheid that Israel practises on a large scale by parking
the Palestinians in gigantic concentration camps, which are called
Gaza and the West Bank. Jimmy Carter has for a long time based
himself on the theology of Kierkegaard, this Protestant priest
and philosopher of the individual who studied the question of
the relations of the "grace of God" with the fate of evil - which
brings us to asking America how it can be that it believes herself
to be God's Chosen, whereas it does behave as "Satan of the world".
You'll notice that the UN, however subjected to America's "redemptiveness"
and "evangelising", has condemned the Israeli wall of apartheid.
So you see that politics are, actually, théopolitics in the sense
that it is more and more obliged to study the theological unconscious
fought all his life against Hegelian dialectics, which substitutes
the epics of the concept of "freedom" instead of the becoming
of the real individual, therefore a crusade of a warlike ideology
against a theology of the breath, therefore a messianism of the
ideals of 1789 with the listening of the "spirit". Carter wrote
this book because he is the only president of the United States
who learned politics by listening to a philosophical culture,
which enabled him to understand that messianised American democracy
is the expression of the fall of the modern world into Hegelianism
with the help of the myths of "freedom" and "justice". These abstractions
substitute the sword of the "democratic verb" for absolute individualism
of "grace". The anthropological intelligence of history and politics
go down into the entrails of the philosophical thought of the
And what if Mr. Sarkozy gains the election?
M.deD.: The Congress of Versailles of February 23, 2007
introduced into the French Constitution 2 new articles. These
are about reform of the fundamental law, which allows France,
by a vote of the French National Assembly and the Senate, constituting
for the circumstance a high Court of Justice, to solemnly relieve
of his post a president who would sell off the sovereignty of
France. I studied the legitimacy of these articles in constitutional
law. Their political reach seems to me revolutionary in a democracy.
See: "La constitution du 23 février 2007 et la défense de la souveraineté
nationale, 15 mars 2007" ( The Constitution of February 23, 2007
and the defence of national sovereignty, March 15, 2007) on www.dieguez-philosophe.com
that answers the possibility according to which Sarkozy, if he
were elected president of the Republic, would turn France into
a vassal of the United States of America. But the real France
is from now on its guard.
What is your point of view on immigration and the place this question
takes in the presidential campaign?
Immigration is a cultural question. It is a question of knowing
whether the intellectual elite of the West is still fertilising
and whether, on its side, Islam is able to give birth to a philosophy
and thought, which would inspire Europe in return. We are far
from it. For the moment, the overwhelming un-culture of an exhausted
secularity prevents formation of a French philosophical elite
able to demonstrate that Islam has, actually, taken a great advance
on Christianity, because Mohamed's religion is not founded on
the pagan myth of the incarnation of a symbolic system. If the
France of Cartesius would not awaken herself in the true heritage
of Darwin and Freud, it would also not be able to give birth to
a philosophical elite within French Islam; and the country would
not know a second renaissance, which would deepen our humanism,
which has become superficial. Will Islam become the detonator
of a new dash of European reason and thinking? Were the tired
God of Christian theologians to become the symbolic support of
the true poetry of humanity, we would listen to the voices of
the signified people whom we call prophets. One of them, called
Isaiah, said to God, in whom he had disguised his own genius:
"I abhor your sacrifices and your hands full of blood on my forecourts."
Again politics, again history!
Iranians: You always rejected Marxism, but how to manage
M.deD.: As soon as the Berlin Wall had fallen Jean-Paul
II disturbed the happy choir of those who praised the newfound
capitalism, because at its origin Christianity is a religion of
the poor and that it has failed each time that it made itself
the prey of the oriental capitalism, that of the throne and gilded
glitter of the Vatican. What Jean-Paul II condemned, was not the
struggle of Marxism against poverty, but the myth of the advent
of a proletarian "kingdom of God", because the Church itself had
had to give it up it after less than one century of learning about
the laws which govern the real politics and history. Since then,
the simian-anthropos is torn between the paradisiacal Utopia and
You evoke the simian ascent of man. Are you the creator of the
concept of simianthropology?
M.deD.: Yes, in Une histoire de l'intelligence (A History
of Intelligenc), Fayard 1986) and before, in La Caverne (The Cave)
Gallimard, bibl. of ideas, 1974. I observe that Darwin did not
lead the internal logic of the concept of evolution of the species
to its natural and therefore inevitable conclusion; because if
we incarnate only one stage of the advent of our brain, we must
acknowledge our current cerebral incompletion - what a Church
that would still be alive should greet like a blessing from the
sky, since, for 20 centuries, all Christian mystics have concentrated
on knowing the limitations [Dutch eindigheid] of the human being.
Pascal made the idol say: "The more it rises, the more I lower
it; the more it lowers, the more I raise it ". Critical anthropology
throws its light on the school of lowering mankind to the level
of a semi-animal, but because only one eye opened on the semi-animal
nature of humanity really sees the idol as it is, i.e. in its
specific animal nature. Because the idol does not rest in the
carved wood, but in a trans-animal look at the wooden god; and
how would the wooden substance of the idol be able to give that
look on it? The saints see the wooden god, which is called the
Iranians: Isn't the sterility by which Western reason from
now on seems to be marked a disease caused by European imperialism,
and this disease isn't it a disease "to the death ", as Kierkegaard
M.deD.: There never was great civilisation, which didn't
spread and which didn't impose its radiation by other means than
by the force of weapons. If Alexander had not launched the Greeks
to attack Asia, there wouldn't have been an universalisation of
Greek civilisation, if Rome had not carried the iron and the fire
beyond its borders, there wouldn't have been a civilisation of
written law and of a global heritage of the Athenian genius. The
war brings to the winner economic prosperity, and after that potentially
a blossoming culture. This is why it should be kept in mind that,
in the eyes of the United States, 1945 isn't the year of the liberation
of Europe, but that of their own military triumph on a global
scale, of which they say themselves that it carried them to a
power higher than that of the Roman empire, higher than that of
the reign of Charles the Fifth, higher than that of Napoleon's
empire, higher than that of the British Commonwealth, a triumph
which for a long time enabled them to impose the dollar as the
only reserve currency of the world. Today, it's also by weapons
that the American empire perishes under our eyes and its descent
into the abyss will be sealed by its defeat in Iraq. Why has this
global shipwreck become inevitable, if not because Russia & China
are from now on able to prevent an American empire, which is already
secretly desperate and out of breath, from defying one last time
the fatality of its death by an ultimate rush on the oil of Iran
and Sudan? But it is too late for going on with the military expansion
of the empire on a global scale.
is to say that occupied Europe will shake the yoke of NATO as
soon as the American empire will have been overcome by a general
revolt of its vassals. All the remainder is only a vain chattering,
because it is quite impossible that a continent that for a certain
period has been occupied by a foreign army does not one day find
again one day its sovereignty. But has the America of Attila,
of Tamerlane, of Genghis Khan, of democracy really been civilizator
in this manner? When Jonathan Littell looks deep down until dizziness
overcomes us into the notion of barbarism, when he writes that
a great writer is a diver, who never stops going deeper down into
the black and "blacker that the black ", he demands for French
nationality. Perhaps he knows that civilisation is a poet, perhaps
he knows that any poet will seek Eurydice in hell, perchance he
knows that a culture is like an Eurydice transfigured by the flute
This is also to say that that all civilisations aren't equal between
them. If it were prohibited to distinguish truth from forgery
in the name of a brain-less multiculturalism, there would be no
more civilisation, since the wizard who believes that the spirit
of its ancestors hides under the bark of trees would become the
equal of the poet of "Subida al monte Carmelo" (Ascent of Mount
Carmel, Poem by John of the Cross). "The eyes of Ezekiel are open",
it is said in the Scripture. Civilisation is a poet who does not
cease opening the eyes of Ezekiel.
Iranians: In this context, do you believe that the israel-palestinian
conflict is an incurable disease?
M.deD.: When everyone will have understood that Israel
will never agree to return to the borders of 1967 and when vassalized
Europe cannot pretend any more to think it will, this State will
have an appointment with Kierkegaard, who will say to him: "You
were sick of your false justice. Now you must decide if this disease
Published June 5, 2007 "
mise en ligne le 20 septembre 2007
présente traduction est le fruit du travail de plusieurs membres
de la liste de diffusion d'Israël Shamir . Je leur adresse mes